Why not iCloud sync for Alfred preferences?

[Nuno]

Hello,

I have set up synchronisation with iCloud today, however one thing bothers me. The documentation says, that "we don't recommend using iCloud or Google Drive". The documentation later states, that Dropbox is more reliable than Google Drive.

What are technical/objective reasons for such remarks? I just ask of curiosity.

[Vero]

@Nuno iCloud isn't currently recommended due to being slower at syncing (sometimes not syncing at all for a long period of time), being less reliable and doing a poor job of file conflict resolution.

 

In our internal testing and when supporting users who chose to use iCloud, we saw preferences being lost, especially due to file conflicts where iCloud loses files or reverts to old versions when it's unable to resolve them.

 

We're very keen to improve the sync options and already have a broad plan for this. There are quite a few aspects to doing this well, such as adding an automatic local backup option, ensuring that if syncing goes wrong, you have a recent backup you can go back to, so we'll be looking into this further once Alfred 5 is out and settled.

 

Having said that, if you'd like to experiment with using iCloud, you can do it; Just make sure you keep your preferences backed up using Time Machine or another regular backup service of your choice.

[Nuno]

Ahhh, thanks for the answer. Being so interested in tech made me curious.

[setupisanoun]

Allow me to add to this: @Vero , have you tested syncing with the major Dropbox changes in Ventura and the later versions of Monterey? Now that it has to use cloudstorage [and theyre just now slowly implementing and working on that support] the experience is vastly different

[vitor]

@setupisanoun Are you having specific issues with those Dropbox versions? I tested the File Provider versions of Dropbox and OneDrive some months and they seemed decent but I haven’t used them daily.

[setupisanoun]

Hey @vitor, overall it's been pretty messy and definitely not easy to migrate, though that's due more to their lack of documentation/communication and overall dropboxyness of the process. Nothing specific to report or ask for help on. Overall it seems to be working a lot closer to how icloud does, hence my curiosity.

[setupisanoun]

Oof, it's become a mess. Seems to be syncing similar to icloud - not with .icloud extensions etc just... not quite reliable in its current form. I'll get my end figured out, this post is to let you know it may become a thing. But also, maybe not! Ah well

[Mustafaalbazy]

What I hate about Dropbox is how much RAM it eats even when doing nothing! Currently using ~700MB for just 31MB worth of files (Alfred preference).

 

 

[suth]

@Mustafaalbazy I recently switched over to Maestral instead of the official Dropbox client

[vitor]

22 minutes ago, suth said:

I recently switched over to Maestral instead of the official Dropbox client

 

Maestral is specifically not recommended:

 

Quote

The third-party Dropbox client Maestral cannot sync file permissions because they aren't made available through the API. This can break your Workflows by making scripts non-executable.

[suth]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:02 PM, vitor said:

 

Maestral is specifically not recommended:

 

 

Ah, disappointment. I think this should be mentioned with the Dropbox instructions since it's relevant to Dropbox users and not after iCloud and Google drive.

[luckman212]

Syncthing has a version that's bundled as a macOS native app. It's open-source, a universal binary so runs well on M1, and hasn't let me down once in over 2 years syncing my Alfred prefs along with 30+GiB of other files between 2 Macs. Highly recommended.

 

https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing-macos

[TomBenz]

51 minutes ago, luckman212 said:

Syncthing has a version that's bundled as a macOS native app. It's open-source, a universal binary so runs well on M1, and hasn't let me down once in over 2 years syncing my Alfred prefs along with 30+GiB of other files between 2 Macs. Highly recommended.

 

https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing-macos

I read it briefly and will try. Is there a option to set sync option such as Two way, one way? How does it resolve conflicts? How much resources it consumes during syncing? For office files, I use onedrive but it takes lot of resources - ram, battery etc.

[luckman212]

@pankajsz Yes you can control sync direction (bidir, one way etc) see here. Conflict resolution is also configurable, and there is a nice safety net/versioning system to keep old or conflicted copies. Overall very safe. Consuming about 85MB RAM and 0% CPU right now on my system, syncing 65K+ files.

 

 

[octothorpe]

I have two Macs, and I like to have Alfred running on both. I would like the preferences to sync between the two. 

 

The sync settings help page basically just tells me I can either 1) install Dropbox or 2) use iCloud Drive only if Optimize Storage is disabled. Unfortunately I can't disable it because I don't have room on my secondary Mac. Since I'm not willing to install and run Dropbox continually just for Alfred, I'm in a bind. Under iCloud's Optimized Storage, Alfred's preferences are often the only thing in the folder they're in that gets purged. When I look at the file's modification date, I see it's many years old. Is there some way at least that Alfred can modify this file in such a way that iCloud Drive regards it as "actively used" so it doesn't get purged? 

 

As an aside, why does Alfred not support some kind of proper built-in syncing mechanism? I find it just a bit frustrating that sync is left to the user to sort out. Pretty much every other app on my Mac uses iCloud and it works well generally. If Agenda and Ulysses and half the other applications I own can do this, why can't Alfred after all these years and all these PowerPack upgrades?

Edited October 5, 2022 by octothorpe
clarity

[Vero]

11 hours ago, octothorpe said:

If Agenda and Ulysses and half the other applications I own can do this, why can't Alfred after all these years and all these PowerPack upgrades?

 

@octothorpe I've merged your thread with the existing one where I've answered this question a few months ago. But in a more detailed response to the examples you give, the type of data some other apps need to sync is very lightweight and basic compared to the always-on nature of Alfred where your preferences are updated and used constantly.

 

As I mentioned earlier, in our tests, we saw iCloud sync data slowly or not sync at all for a long period of time. This can lead to file conflicts if you've edited your workflow or snippets collection on your second Mac - and iCloud handles these file conflicts terribly compared to other sync services. 

 

If you have preferred alternative services to Dropbox, go ahead and try them out. The requirements are that it's 1. A service that keeps your data on your Mac at all times, not just a virtual file reference, and 2. Is available at startup.

 

Ideally, keep a Time Machine backup (or your preferred backup alternative) so it's easy to jump back to a recent version of your preferences if for any reason, your backup fails. 

 

Hope this context is helpful

 

Cheers,
Vero

[luckman212]

I'm sorry to throw more cold water on the idea @octothorpe but I very much agree with what Vero said about iCloud. It's just so unreliable. I am extremely glad I don't have to worry about losing important data, workflow changes, prefs etc because of Apple's incompetence when it comes to cloud sync. I'm syncing my Alfred settings with Syncthing and it's a joy.

 

I have some apps that sync with iCloud (the one that comes to mind is Drafts.app) and I'm constantly babysitting them- resetting them when the sync breaks, dealing with old data from the wrong device overwriting newer data, duplicated data showing up, or things I deleted suddenly re-appearing. It's a disaster and I'm so glad I don't have to put up with it for something as near and dear as Alfred. I hope Apple gets their sh^t together one day with iCloud, but until then—hard pass.

 

 

[octothorpe]

4 hours ago, Vero said:

As I mentioned earlier, in our tests, we saw iCloud sync data slowly or not sync at all for a long period of time. This can lead to file conflicts if you've edited your workflow or snippets collection on your second Mac - and iCloud handles these file conflicts terribly compared to other sync services. 

 

If you have preferred alternative services to Dropbox, go ahead and try them out. The requirements are that it's 1. A service that keeps your data on your Mac at all times, not just a virtual file reference, and 2. Is available at startup.

 

Thanks for the clarification. iCloud does have weird roadbumps and is not particularly transparent about what it's doing. When it works, it works brilliantly but as @luckman212 points out, it's maddening to troubleshoot when it doesn't. For what it's worth, the only issue I ever run into is iCloud Drive purging my local copy of Alfred's settings. Once syncing is re-established I see changes in my Alfred settings sync between my Macs more or less instantly.

 

I still think Alfred should provide some mechanism for syncing its settings between Macs. I don't think it's a great user experience to say, essentially, "install Dropbox or maybe try something else. Good luck!"

 

I'm an avid user of Things, which seems to manage quite nicely with its own sync service. Before that, I used Omnifocus, which similarly handles sync itself on its own terms. If Apple's inbuilt sync service is problematic for Alfred to use, I think an alternative should be provided to paying users. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by octothorpe

[vitor]

Don’t forget those apps sync at most a couple of MBs, and by using iCloud they get syncing for free. Alfred preferences can be hundreds of MBs if you have many workflows installed. Hosting and bandwidth for all that is a recurring cost and Alfred is not a subscription service. The math doesn’t work the same.

[TomBenz]

16 hours ago, luckman212 said:

I'm syncing my Alfred settings with Syncthing and it's a joy.

 

@luckman212I have tried to use Syncthing in the past based on your suggestion but it is complex to do the initial setup. It will be great if you can guide with the simplified steps.

[gr8]

I was foolishly using iCloud to sync my Alfred 4 preferences and just lost everything since my last backup 8 months ago.

 

All the fine-tunes workflows, snippets, searches…

 

Feels like crying 🥺

 

 

[gr8]

PS: False alarm. After manually re-downloading the `Alfred.alfredpreferences` package by clicking the little 🌩️ icon in the Finder, all is back. Phew 😌

 

[Vero]

@gr8 Glad you're all sorted! As with my suggestion earlier in this thread, we very much recommend backing up your preferences to Time Machine, so that if there are any issues with cloud-hosted services, you have a regular automatic backup you can go back to.

[vitor]

@gr8 To ensure files remain local, turn off Optimise Mac Storage under System Settings → Apple ID → iCloud.

[octothorpe]

iCloud Drive is very frustrating for this. One one of my Macs I have iCloud set to sync Documents and Desktop folders -- which ends up including Alfred's preferences. I don't have enough room on the Mac to keep my whole 1 TB of files downloaded, so I have to use Optimize Storage. 

 

Thing is -- and this is definitely iCloud Drive's fault -- it seems to purge the Alfred preferences very frequently. Even when there are other neighboring files that are larger or much less often used, somehow the sync system sees fit to boot Alfred.alfredpreferences first. Unfortunately there's no way to "pin" a file, so I just end up manually downloading the preferences over and over to keep Alfred running.

 

I did notice that this preferences file shows a modification date many years old. Although its contents are frequently updated, the file looks in the Finder as if it hasn't been touched in the 9+ years I've been using (and paying for) Alfred. Is there any way to have Alfred game this logic a bit and make it clear when it's modified Alfred.alfredpreferences, which would hopefully keep it from being auto-purged so much?

 

Alfred is a Mac-specific app, and like it or not iCloud is a very deeply integrated part of MacOS at this point. Anything Alfred can do to play along with it better would be much appreciated by us iCloud Drive users. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by octothorpe